There is no mention of the IB program, which is more comprehensive than the AP one and offered at both our wonderful high schools!

Sarah, the reason IB is not listed is that it IS NOT more comprehensive then AP! Many college won't even LOOK at IB CERTIFICATES, they only look at IB DEGREES.. and the number of IB degrees in either school is MINIMAL.
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the IB is run out of Scotland, and MANY american colleges feel AP better represents a college class then IB. The other reason IB is not looked at is that it is EXCLUSIVE to rich districts. Middle class/Poor districts can't afford to offer IB degrees.
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I know this town is sold on IB, but top 30 schools are not.
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Seriously you guys need to look at the schools these kids are getting into and their SAT scores. They should be getting into top 30 schools no problem and they are not. Two reasons (I think)
1) IB degree is so intensive work wise the kids don't have TIME to do other stuff, and colleges want other stuff - and not 20 things, 1 -3 that they really focus on.
2) A lot of kids don't go ALL IB... it actually HURTS the other kids. Schools look at 'most stringent offered' at that school and compare YOUR KID to that. So if IB degree is offered, and you don't do it they consider it a 'sub-par' student. So if your kid took 8 APs and another IB certificate the IB certificate would count WAY less. In fact, they want only the kids in the 'TOUGHEST' route allowed. So having something that only 1/4 the students use HURTS 75% of the students.

just a FYI

we need a college admissions person to sit with parents and tell them the TRUTH.

go barbara!!!

oh and for those looking at reality... only 10% get IB degrees! BETWEEN the two schools... so for 688 HS Seniors in district aprox. 66 got IB degrees (aprox because WMC reports 299 over 11 years but no number by year... hmm)
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reason WMC higher ? 304 took AP and got 4 or better out of 373 students
WMM has 102 AP scores 4 or better out of 315
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What has changed so much in one year? Well, look at the discord Mr. Button and Ms. Asdal bring to the board table. Everything is a fight. Acrimony reigns. Good people's reputations are trashed. 2 people have agendas to denigrate the schools (THAT's working!) to break up the school district (THAT's NOT!). What they have achieved is change, all right. But not for the better.

I agree Harvey, all they do is argue, not a very productive. Who are the children here? I'm not sure about this but, doesn't the dsitrict get some kind of funding if more students sign up for IB? Well known fact, colleges look at AP, period. I would like to know why WMM is always scoring higher in test scores than WMC. It's the same district?????

Yes, looked it up over 10K a year! Obviously some parent must of pushed hard enough to get this program into the district. So does anyone know why WMC does not get equal to or better test scores than WMM????????

I an NOT saying what they give CREDIT for I'm talking about what the admissions dept LOOKS at. They want hardest offered. I ASKED about cert if degree offered and they PREFER degrees where offered.

If no degree offered no problem. The problem is a degree IS offered and 90% don't take it.

A ton. Of schools "accept" AP and IB classes for credit. Some just for class placement. Some just look at them for admission and don't county em for anything. The harder the school is to get into the less credit they give. Princeton requires EVERY class be taken at Princeton but does use them for placement (admissions want hardest degree offered).

Remember there is a difference between getting credit and getting in.

I am JUST telling you what I was told by admissions people over and over and over and over again. Most stringent offered course load offered.

They will admit some one with NO APs from a district that doesn offer them.

From Jay Mathews at the Washington Post:

I have been talking to selective college admissions officers about IB for a decade, and the notion that they only respect IB kids who get the diploma is not correct. If you have a quote from an actual admissions officer saying that, please tell me whom so I can check it out. This popped up in the Woodson controversy, with the AP side making a similar charge that a UVA officer had said something of the sort. I tracked him down and he denied it, saying what they all have told me: they want to see the kid taking on a college challenge, which means three to five AP or IB courses and tests. You need to take 6 IB tests to get the diploma. Admissions officers are happy to see that, but they will put a kid with just 4 IB courses and tests on the same level as a kid with 4 AP courses and tests, and they know the IB courses and tests have some strengths that AP does not have, which is why AP is making its science courses more like IB.

Harvard, AP, and IB --
http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/international/faq.html#31
Does Harvard consider non-required test results, such as Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate, Abitur or GCE A-levels?
Yes. We value predicted A-level and IB results along with any information that helps us form a complete picture of an applicant's academic interests and strengths. However, results from these examinations cannot substitute for our required admissions testing. All applicants must submit the results of the SAT I or ACT as well as two SAT II Subject Tests.

http://www.ibo.org/country/university_info.cfm?university_name=Harvard%20University&current_country=UNITED%20STATES
University IB policy
Students who have earned the International Baccalaureate (IB) diploma with a grade of 7 on at least three Higher Level examinations may qualify for Advanced Standing. Students wishing to use IB exams for Advanced Standing should request that the IB Americas' office send an official IB transcript directly to Harvard.......(read more)

Nice discussion if you happen to be talking about the 10% of the students this involves but what about the other 90%. A GOOD school district doesn't just cater to the top 10% and the bottom 10% (because they have to) but to the school population as a whole. AP, IB, Newsweek rankings, US News and World Report Rankings, none of these takes into consideration how a district provides for ALL of the students. You guys get so tied up in this. Most of the kids are not going to go to Harvard nor should they. Everyone likes to think that their kids are brilliant but the reality is most of them do fall into the middle 80% and what are we doing for them? Its not about where we stand in some ranking of our best students.

what the ivy's want is 'well rounded' and most stringent... that is the only answer they gave me... they said things like 'if the school only offers 4 AP we get why they only took 2-3, if it offers 20 we are going to wonder why they only took 2-3... if they offer IB degree we are going to wonder why they only took 2-3 IB classes...
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OBVIOUSLY if 6 = degree and your kid has 5 he/she is doing pretty good.. but they will wonder what happened to that 6th class ...
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no one is saying they won't take them for placement!
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my only point was if only 10% are being catered to, and it could 'possibly' hurt the other 90% why are the 90% being ignored?
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i do NOT have a kid in district, so i was just passing along what we have been told. ... feel free to ignore it, it's not like this district will give up the "status" that they perceive IB has.
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oh, and as for UVA .. the kids in state went nuts and families protested to get them to take IB, they gave in to the pressure... (yes, they should have taken them if they took AP)
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is AP perfect, no... BUT it is accessible to EVERY STUDENT of EVERY background. I am AGAINST anything that discriminates by $$$. It's why I think you should have to report using a SAT prep center/class too.
I feel it's just the 1% trying to insure the colleges know who they are. (hate replies can go below)

Nowhere in this discussion is there any mention of what schools are supposed to be doing: teaching kids to THINK, to reason, and to critically assess information. This is the goal of IB, not AP. So if you want lifelong learning, an IB diploma is the gold standard. AP doesn't try to do this. Of course getting into the college of your dreams is important; but lifelong learning is something that benefits students at every level, not "just" the top students. Stop and think, please, and consider what you are discussing. It's not just college prep. It's preparation for life. That's what IB is supposed to do. And what it does.

just found this ... again IB degree looked at as a 'good' think IB certificate bad.. most of our kids are NOT degree students...

"IB's answer to competing with the AP folks is to offer a modular program that is supposed to be equivalent to AP exams. The modular approach offers certificates to students who do not choose to go after the diploma, but who want some IB credit. Unfortunately, I have found that most good universities offer up to twice as much credit for equivalent AP test scores as for individual IB test scores. IB is accepted by good universities as a whole package, but the universities do not seem to like the modular approach to IB. Many schools offer no credit at all for standard level IB exams (unless they are taken as part of the IB diploma), and only a nominal amount of credit for the higher level IB exams. There are some good reasons for this. IB is so broad that certain material that is expected of college freshman is not covered in the IB curriculum. If students are to skip certain courses and go on to more advanced ones, this missing material can be a problem. On the other hand, IB students tend to have had an introduction to more advanced material that AP students do not have, so it may even out in the end."
.. it was the FIRST one i opened... the above quote is from it.
http://askville.amazon.com/International-Baccalaureate-Programme/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=4577271

enjoy your weekend... as a 'un-world view non-independent thinking' AP mom i have to get my daughter ready to meet her friends from around the country (from bible belt to CA and back) so they can ignore their socioeconomic status, religious views, sexual preferences, and political standing, and open their minds to new people and ways of life. they will enjoy a sader meal (first for many from the bible belt), temple is skipped this year as it's booked but normally they go and worship together at temple even though many are ultra conservative christians, and spend the weekend without cell phones/computers just hanging out and talking to each other about politics, economics, lit, and life -- thanks to great TEACHERS ... (teachers who teach to excellence take a bow here, yes you eye the test but you teach to teach not just to a test..)
-- so Harvey, when is the last time you saw your IB students have friends in trailers who work all year just to meet friends while struggling to pay the bills? IB in a 1% town, is still sheltered kids..
trust me I know many of them, and many of them don't even get that occupy wall street is about them (LV'ers excluded from that, sorry guys we are not the 1%)
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for the record on paper i like IB, in practice nothing exclusionary should ever be an accepted accredited US curriculum-that is something called SEGREGATION and elitist capitalism. and that dude on your penny died to put a stop to it, as did many on 9/11

blah blah blah,,,,,I am all for a great education but your kids and my kids are going to be what they going to be. I graduated in the middle of my class and have been more successful than those who were in the top 10. Heck Mark Zuckerburg and Bill gates dropped out of college!! Do you really believe that it was their AP courses or IB courses that made them who they are?? Please, they had a gift and they were getting there one way or another and the rest of their classmates are middle management because they couldn't think outside of the box!!

I totally agree. I know a number of now grown up kids who went to Ivies and other top schools. Have they all been big money-makers? Big successes? Some of them. Some of them not so much. Depends on your definition of "success", too. To "really make it", a person needs brains, ambition, social skills ("emotional smarts"), networking, and (hopefully) some degree of attractiveness, be it physical or just an overall likeability. And LUCK. Being in the right place at the right time doesn't hurt. It isn't all black and white and it does not all hang on a school's offering IB versus AP. It would be nice to be able to plan it all out and guarantee one's future, or the future of one's child, but unfortunately, life doesn't work that way.

well i guess you all just hit on what i don't like about IB degree.. it's a box you must fit in... ap you take what you like.
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teachers should always teach outside a box.
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success is not $$, it's happiness.
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barbie is right on a lot.
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socioeconomic is a factor that CAN be overcome... but a nice excuse.
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these are all good points.
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but i still think we would be better off with a creative, innovative, curriculum then a canned IB one. that only 10% use. i would love to see lecturers in our HS, or 'multi week study at diff schools', linked classrooms (international) this would be great for lit or history!, more economics classes, more use of varied education. ... think of what we could do if we weren't tied to a 'canned' program.
... every success you mentioned had either a unique gift, or thought outside the box.. so why are we not teaching that way? why do we make outside the box thinkers 'bad' by telling out kids not to socialize with them (non inclusive after school activities)?
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have a 'self study' AP program. any kid - any AP .. you study you take it..

We are not teaching that way basically because to do this, the teacher him/herself has to have a rare gift for teaching and inspiring. Most teachers don't. It's just the way it is. Hard to find a really outstanding teacher, in either public or private schools. Teachers are "just people", like the rest of us.

But the self-study AP idea is a good one. You don't have to be taught by someone else to get really good at something. If you're motivated, and have decent ability, you can do a whole lot all by yourself. And Mom and Dad can always provide a little prodding and/or encouragement, too ! That, to me, is thinking outside the box, and that is something everyone can do.

barbie and barbara, i agree...
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you know i prefer AP because it is open to all students across america, and feel that any program that claims to be 'world view' but is only in 'rich' districts is an oxymoron and i honestly feel it sells something it doesn't deliver (world inclusive view) ...
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what would happen if one HS went all AP and one all IB and we had school choice? (trying to be fair) ..
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as for self study, we should let any student in this district sit for ANY AP... our taxes are high enough. the key is, and will always be where education is concerned, parent support.
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and i think if we created a 'world view' curriculum our teachers would teach it just fine.. they are better then you give them credit (at least i hope they are)